Jess
Hi, I’m Jess.

Sara
And I’m Sarah. And we’re from the Geelong Neuro Centre. We are empowered people, empowering people, and the aim of this podcast is to empower you.

Jess
Hi, Sarah.

Sara
Hey, Jess. How are you?

Jess
Good.

Sara
How are you? Yeah, good. Excited for today?

Jess
I am. All right, let’s get into it.

Sara
Yeah. So today we have two or three guests in with us. Today we have Kristin and her little boy Baz, and we have Amy and they’re a couple of our therapists here at the Geelong Neuro Center. So we might even start with. Yeah, you guys just can give us a bit of an introduction. Introduce yourselves. So, Kristen, you’re a speech pathologist?

Kristen
I am. I’m Kristen. I’m a speech pathologist here at Geelong Neuro Center and I have worked here almost a year and a half, two years now, and I work with kids and adults and my background is pretty much working with people with disabilities in the NDIS and working in the community.

Sara
Yeah, good, yeah. And we’ve got Amy and she’s an occupational therapist.

Amy
Yes. Yep. I’m an occupational therapist and I’ve been working here at Geelong Neuro Centre for just over two years. My background is through public health before coming here and worked across all the different areas, but, yeah, specialised now in neuro, brain injury. All the fun stuff.

Sara
Yeah. And you guys have both just returned to work after having babies. Yeah.

Kristen
Which Baz just wants to introduce himself to. Sebastian. He’s six months old and he’s trying to grow curly hair. It’s not going very well.

Jess
Looks like a mohawk at the moment.

Kristen
He does. We’ve got Mohawk vibes going.

Sara
And, Amy, you’ve got Oscar.

Amy
Yeah, I’ve got Oscar. He’s almost nine months old. And then I’ve got another almost three year old toddler, Florence.

Sara
Busy times.

Amy
Yeah, crazy chaos.

Sara
So how have you settled back into work since having Oscar?

Amy
Yeah, coming back to work has been really good. It’s felt a lot different when I came back to work after Florence for many, many reasons, but I’m only doing one day a week at the moment, so from a personal life point of view, it’s enough. And it’s a great break in my week to come in here and have some adult conversation and use my brain and break up my week and then feel refreshed heading back to the kids on the following day.

Sara
Yeah, yeah. Good. What about you, Kristin? How have you settled in?

Kristen
Really good. I feel like I didn’t leave. Yeah, I was much the same. It was a no-brainer for me to come back to work. So came back to work when Buzz was about five, five months old for me, I love my job and I still have so many career goals and I’m very privileged that I’ve got all my family in Geelong so they can help me. I’m very, very lucky. So I’m doing two days at the moment that’s going really well and it just means I’m bringing 100% of myself back home. Having that break and just as Amy said, using your creative brain and working with a team, it’s done the world of good for me and my mental health, for sure.

Sara
Yeah.

Jess
So we wanted to chat to both of you today around returning to work and motherhood and balancing that and a career. Did you have any anxieties upon returning to work?

Amy
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think from my point of view, I returned to work with Oscar a bit earlier than I had probably had in my head when I first went on maternity leave. Oscar was almost six months old, I think, when I came back, and I was lucky enough with Florence to not come back to work till she was about, I think, ten or eleven months old. So, yeah, I was definitely anxious about leaving Oscar a bit younger than I would have liked with all these extra complex elements to it from a health point of view, and he’s been a very spewy baby, which is one of the main things, but. So, yeah, leaving him with my mum to deal with and deal with all of that during the day and also just, yeah, navigating, trying to switch that part of my brain off for a little bit while I’m at work and not worry about him when I’m at work. So, yeah, there’s been a lot of those anxieties, but then I feel like once I was back at work and it probably only took that first day back, I was like, oh, yeah, this is fine. And, yeah, those anxieties definitely have decreased every day that I’m here.

Sara
I think you mentioned that returning to work has been very different with Oscar compared to Florence.

Amy
Yeah.

Sara
Can you explain a little bit more about that?

Amy
Yeah, I think they were both complex for different reasons. Returning to work from having Florence was challenging in a sense of I didn’t know where I was going to be working when I came back from work with Florence. I left a position or a job where I wasn’t guaranteed work when I came back. So I navigated the potential options there and whilst not wanting to sort of go back to work at the same time, it wasn’t the right fit for me to then, I guess, jump through all these hoops just to come back to work in a position that I wouldn’t love. And then thankfully, obviously there’s been Geelong Neuro centre, who, yeah, have just been super supportive. But I think I navigated coming back to work with after having Florence to Geelong Neuro Centre. Once I knew where I was coming, I went back to two days a week. I had the challenges of putting my first kid in daycare and leaving my child with people I had no idea about. And that first navigation of, of work mum life, chuckling all the sick leave in terms of the day germs, whereas with Oscar this time around, like that side of things, I knew what I was in for, but it’s just been the juggle of all his medical appointments and just the stresses and sort of, yeah, mental toll that all of that takes and, yeah, leaving him a bit earlier than I would have liked. But the positive side is that I had a very supportive workplace in Geelong Neurocentre that, yeah, I feel very grateful to know that that was where I was coming back to and to have the flexibility is to say this is all I can manage, I need to come back to work, but this is all I can do and be supported in that, which just helped to sort of relieve those anxieties and be able to focus on work. And, Oscar.

Sara
Yeah. We love having you back within the team.

Amy
It’s been fun.

Sara
Yeah, I’m glad to be back. What about you, Kristen? Did you have any anxieties returning to work?

Kristen
Oh, definitely. Amy and I have really connected as parents because we’ve gone through quite similar experiences with our babies. Buz is my first baby and I also had a very spewy baby. So at the moment we’ve got a confirmed diagnosis of an allergy to cow’s milk. That was very challenging and I did have anxieties about coming back to work and same thing, you know, who’s going to look after him? Are they going to feel okay? We’ve got a nasogastric tube, so we’ve had to train carers and grandparents to do that while I’m at work and I guess there’s parts to me that feel a bit guilty for wanting to do that. I’m very lucky that our family has really understood and respected my wishes to go back to work and what that means for me and my mental health. I think from a speech pathology perspective, I know staying home for longer, a lot of the evidence says it helps with development and bonding and that was something I really had to consider too. I know you’ve got more to say too, but we’ve got, you know, amazing family who are also getting opportunity to bond and connect with him as well, so, you know, it’s worked out really well for all of us.

Sara
Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Did you have any non-negotiables when you were returning to work? Like, this has to happen for me to return to work.

Kristen
Absolutely. I think just making sure we still had family time. So now on the weekend it’s crucial. It’s, you know, we spend time together as a family. My husband, myself and Baz, we just make that a priority because, you know, we’re both working now and that time on the weekend’s just paramount for us to, you know, have connection with each other too. And, yeah, that’s a non negotiable for me and just making sure that I can still maintain a good work life balance. My organisation skills have had a really good workout over the last couple of weeks and just making sure that I’m eating really well so meal prepping, things like that on the weekends, doing us the world of good too. So definitely my non-negotiables.

Sara
Yeah. What about you, Amy? What are yours?

Amy
Yeah, I think for me, I still wanted a day at home with Oscar without Florence, which sounds awful. So I didn’t want to come back to work on both the days that Florence was in daycare. Just. Yeah, like what Kristen said, just to have that bonding with Oscar and have that one on one time that I feel so lucky that I had with Florence for so long and to try and balance out that mum guilt that we all feel about leaving our kids and going to work and doing something for ourselves and then I. Yeah, just similar, making sure that we have that family time and. And having family look after Oscar until he’s closer to one. So if I really didn’t want to put him in daycare with everything that was happening with him, so I needed to make sure that, yeah, I had a family member that was happy to look after him for the day at least.

Kristen
I think it’s really become clear to me how challenging it is for a lot of people to have family interstate and just appreciating, especially mums and dads that I know that have that and they’ve still been able to get to work and. Yeah, just so much more appreciation now of what parents do and, you know, some of the sacrifices they’ve got to make as well.

Sara
Yeah, yeah. What about like, in society sometimes there is a bit of judgement about coming back to work so early. Have you guys experienced that with any, like, of your family members or friends?

Amy
Yeah, I feel like nearly every single person that I said, you know, I’m going back to work in a couple of weeks. The response was always, oh, so soon? Really? Did you go back that soon after Florence?

Sara
Yeah.

Amy
And, yeah, in the beginning I sort of used to brush it off, but then I think I just got so sick of it that I was like, yeah, one, financially I need to, but two, for my mental health, I need to do something. And then I think once I started mentioning mental health, everyone. Yeah, eased up on this. You know, they don’t mean it, but, yeah, it can feel you already feel guilty for making that decision. So it doesn’t help hearing those comments.

Jess
What is a way that people can frame that to you or ways that people can support you or maybe a mum that they know returning to work, what are ways that you found have been beneficial?

Kristen
I think for me, I had some friends who said to me that really well done, if that’s what is the best thing for you, what support do you need? How can people make the transition easier for you if that’s what you want, rather than saying, oh, you’re going back to work. Are you sure that’s the right decision? Just reframing it in a, you know, what can I do to help? You know, do you need me to look after the baby for a couple of hours while you go on a date with your husband? You know, what can we all do to help you out? Because it does take a village. Yeah, that would be my suggestion.

Amy
Yeah, I agree. I think just changing the way that you respond to that question. You’re asking that question or you’re hearing us talk about it, just say, oh, that’s awesome.

Kristen
Or even showing some curiosity. Tell me more about that. What’s been your experience? And I’d love to know more about that.

Jess
And seeking to understand.

Amy
Yeah. Yeah. Because sometimes for me, I love my job, and so I was really excited to get back at the same time feeling guilty and all the mixed emotions that you feel. And so there is that element of, yeah, of course I’m going back to work. Like, I love my job. Why would I not go back to work? But then there’s also that element of, there’s some people that might absolutely not want to go back to work, but they don’t have a choice and they have to go back to work and be mindful of that as well. So, yeah, just approaching it with curiosity and, you know, not having a statement response, like responding with a question and. Yeah. Asking a bit more about it before making an assumption.

Sara
Yeah.

Kristen
And there’s no right or wrong. That’s the thing, isn’t it? And even in my mother’s group, there’s mums in my group who are really certain that they don’t want to go back in the first twelve months and they’re going to take that time. And whichever way you choose to do it, there’s no right or wrong. It’s whatever suits you and your family. Yeah. So often talked about that guilt and you’ve just got to do what’s right for you and the baby and your family.

Sara
Yeah, yeah. You mentioned that work has helped your mental health, Amy.

Amy
Yeah, yeah. I think after having Florence, I saw a psychologist and had some. Yeah. Mental health stuff that I went through more related to birth trauma. And so then after Oscar, obviously, once you’ve sort of experienced that, once you’re more, I guess, susceptible to going through it again after another baby. And I did a lot of work to try and prevent myself from having any sort of mental health issues post Oscar and then everything just happened with him from a medical point of view and, yeah, it just got to a point where it felt like Groundhog day. There was no answers. Going through the same thing every single day, putting up with a very unhappy crying baby, it wasn’t enjoyable. It wasn’t that experience that I had with Florence where you’ve got this happy little chubby, chunky little thing that is kicking all the goals and milestones. It was just the complete opposite experience. And I felt like I didn’t have anything to break up my days and, yeah, the days felt long. And coming to work has just been that, you know, one day of the week where I know that I can switch off from all of that and come and use my brain and feel useful and helpful and I love the people that I work with. I love the vibe here at the centre, so it just feels like I’m coming and hanging out with my friends one day a week, which is really nice and it’s just been really crucial to. Yeah. For my mental health.

Sara
Absolutely, yeah. What about you, Kristen? Your mental health?

Kristen
Yes, I very similar experience to Amy in the sense that we were just groundhog day every day with the vomiting and I’ll summarise it, but essentially we have been in hospital a lot of the time in the last six months and up at the royal children’s trying to work out what was going on. We have had a lot of medical appointments and that really did consume a lot of my maternity leave. The time that I was at home, I was diagnosed with postnatal depression at two months old, which really rocked me. I’m not someone who has really suffered from depression or anxiety before, so that was really challenging for us as a family. And my. My husband, Christian said, you know, I think you need to go back to work. Like, go and do some things that bring you joy and fill your cup up again, and then you can come back home and, you know, fill your cup up there again, too. So, yeah, that was my journey. Very, very tricky. But, yeah, again, just like, such a supportive workplace. And credit to Sara and Lach, our directors, they put a lot of emphasis on mental health and making sure that you’ve got a good work life balance. So, yeah, really, really lucky to have GNC in my corner.

Sara
Thank you. We’re lucky to have you guys.

Amy
That makes me just tear up listening to you. I feel it. I feel that in my soul.

Jess
Yeah, we’ve been talking a little bit around the anxiety of returning to work, what anxieties did, or if you had anxiety before having children, and then that balancing of career and having babies. Talk to us a little bit about how that journey went for you guys.

Amy
Yeah, I laugh because I just. My previous workplace, you just knew going into having a baby, there was going to be challenges returning to work. Yeah, I think I probably. We put off having a baby for a little bit initially because I really wanted to progress in my career, and I felt like I needed more time as an OT under my belt before I could go and start a family, because I felt like then I would be more worthy of coming back and having a job to come back to. Which, when I think back to that now, it’s just. It’s so crazy that. Yeah, I feel like it’s so crazy that that was my mindset, that I felt like I didn’t have enough experience and I wasn’t a good enough ot to go off to then have a baby and know that I’ll be able to get work afterwards. But when? Yeah, but then, I guess in my personal life, the timing was right sort of whenever we wanted to, but it didn’t feel like it was from a work point of view. And then I remember we started trying for a baby, and I had so much anxiety about my job, and I was applying for all these positions that I felt like would then put me in a better position for when I was going to come back for maternity leave, and some of them were positions that they wouldn’t like, fill my cup up. I guess they weren’t my passionate areas, but I felt like I needed them. And every interview I went to and every time they said I didn’t get the position, I was just bawling my eyes out because I was so stressed, thinking, oh, my gosh, I’m gonna go off and have this baby. And then I might end up working in a cafe. Like, that was honestly my mindset.

Sara
Did they know you were pregnant at that time?

Amy
No.

Sara
Yeah.

Amy
No. And then I went for one particular interview, which was in an area that absolutely loved. It was a step up, and I. I felt like this was going to be my opportunity to land that position, that then coming back on flexible work arrangements would be a lot easier. And I didn’t get a position and I was pregnant at the time and my world just fell apart around me. And to the point that Matt was like, you have to stop stressing about this because you’re pregnant right now. You cannot be, like, this emotional and stressed about something. It’s not going to be very good for you or the baby. And, yeah, we just had a very real conversation and he was like, there’s work, like, you will be fine. Don’t worry about it. Yeah. And then I think I messaged. I think I messaged Sarah when I was like, I think Florence was maybe like one month old and I was.

Sara
Pretty excited and I was like, please.

Amy
Don’T forget about me. I’m currently on maternity leave and I don’t know if I’m going to have a job to go back to. So if you need ot’s, maybe further down the track. Yeah. And just even Sarah’s positivity around that just alleviated all those anxieties. But it’s just such a silly experience to feel that anxious and stressed at a time that is meant to be so amazing and beautiful and exciting. So to have that element of stress. Right in the beginning

Jess
I think, waiting for that. I haven’t had children yet and there is a part in my brain where I go, everything in my career needs to be exactly where I want it to be. All my ducks in a row. But also knowing there’s probably never going to be a perfect time and if you keep waiting for that perfect time, it’s just potentially prolonging it when that’s not something I want to do. So I relate to that quite a lot because I feel like I’m in that stage coming to my later twenties and getting married next year and knowing that in the next few years, we’re going to be thinking about children, but that anxiety of going, oh, how does that affect my job when, like, my job at Geelong Neuro Center is they are so supportive, but it’s almost ingrained in us and in society to have that anxiety and everyone goes, it’s all right, you can do it all. You can do both. But then it’s juggling. Well, how does that actually look? So I love hearing your guys experience about that and relate to that. It makes me realise that there might not be a perfect time, but it’s also not the end of your career. You don’t have a baby and that’s it. It’s a bit of balance, but you can still thrive in a career after kids.

Kristen
Yeah, I think it’s also asking for help as well. When you need it. I think you can have it, like, both. I think you can have a family and a career. You’ve just got to be open and willing to receive some help from a village. And that might not be family. It could be friends or it could be getting paid, supports, babysitters, daycare. You can do it. It’s just, you’ve just got to make sure you’ve got the help behind you there to achieve it.

Amy
And I sort of feel like since having kids, my passion for my career has grown because I’m leaving them at home. So I’m not just going to leave them at home and come and do the bare minimum and just to get back to them. Like, if I’m leaving them, I want to work hard and I want to be in an area that I love and enjoy. I feel like since coming to Geelong Neurocenter, I now have this, you know, passion inside of me where I want to be better and do better and be an amazing ot because I am leaving my kids to do this and I want having a girl, I want to show her that she can do anything she wants to do and she doesn’t have to, you know, blend into the system. That often happens, unfortunately, for females. And, yeah, you can be whatever you want to be and you can climb that ladder and be an amazing professional in whatever your role is. Yeah.

Jess
Sarah?

Sara
Yeah.

Jess
I know you have a really interesting story about work and starting your business after children. Can you tell us a little bit about that?

Sara
Kind of. Bit of a. Similar story to Amy’s, I guess similar start is I was working in a different role, not with Geelong Neuro Centre. It didn’t exist at that time, but same sort of thing. I knew that when I was gonna have children that my job probably wasn’t gonna be there when I returned. And I remember having so many meetings with my supervisor beforehand when I was pregnant, I’d be like, so we could do this with the job when I get back and trying to create that role when I came back. Yeah, they’re just nodding along and, yeah, went off, had a baby, came back and had that initial meeting about returning to work and it was just awful. It was. I probably knew it was going to be awful, but, yeah, I was going to be put into a position where I was. I didn’t have the skills to do that job, so I would be a leave relief cover, so I’d be going into, yeah, different positions every single day. And I, again, was super passionate about neuro rehab and that’s all I’ve worked in. And I was going to be working in, like, an ortho, medical awards and cardiac wards and I didn’t have those skills, but also the days of the week would change every single week. So how is that going to work with having children? And I asked the person I was meeting with, I was like, how does that work with daycare? And they said, oh, sometimes there’s Saturday daycare available. And I said, like, how did. I said, I feel quite anxious about coming back to work and what happens if they’re sick? And like, what if you have a bad night and you’ve got to get up and get to work the next day? And she like, yeah, the lady said that I didn’t have that experience. I’m in management, so I didn’t have that experience. So just felt like we couldn’t really relate. So that probably just gave me the push to go into the private world and create this opportunity to create an organisation where maternity leave and having babies is really welcome here. And a lot of our female therapists here, especially within the OT team, have children, and a lot of our female team work part time, and so we’ve also got the same opportunities for males as well. So one of our physios works four days a week, so he can be available to look after his son on the other day as well. So not just the same opportunities for males or for females, same opportunities for males as well. So, yeah, I think although there was a bad experience at the time, it’s created this much bigger opportunity. And definitely if anyone says they’re going to have a baby, I’m going to be very excited for them and I hope they’re not feeling like they’re dreading that whole nine months that they’re at work. That do I have a job coming back? Because we’re very open to having that graded return to work programme and starting that one day a week or being flexible according to what you guys need, what your support’s available and then grading that up as you guys feel ready.

Amy
And I also think, credit to this workplace, even just the support, knowing, I think, particularly for us, too, that it hasn’t been the easiest of journeys and we do have a lot of chaos still happening in our life and we still are navigating a lot. So just knowing that there’s that support there for those conversations and that we don’t have to come to work and pretend that, you know, our life is rainbows and butterflies with our kids at home, that we can just be open about the fact that sometimes it’s pretty shit and we’re just thankful to. To be coming here and enjoying our time.

Sara
Yeah, well, we’re so happy to have you back and. Yeah, love having you part of our team. Anything else to add, Jess?

Jess
I think that’s it. I just. Yeah, loved hearing you guys talk about it. And some tips for especially mums wanting to return to work or even mums that are thinking of having children in the next couple of years. I think it’s such an important topic to be spoken about more often and then it enables us to support each other as well.

Amy
Yeah, absolutely. And just having those conversations, like we said, the more that you talk about it and just normalise the whole process, then the less stress and anxiety there should be around it and that you can do it if you’ve got the support around you. And if you don’t, there’s obviously avenues to get that support and there’s no reason why we can’t live these amazing work, mum life, balanced lives and. Yeah, work in an area that we love.

Jess
Thanks for coming in today, guys.

Sara
On your day off as well, you’ve been amazing. You start.

Amy
Sorry.

Kristen
Also, Kristen, big little grisly moments.

Sara
Juggle your cognitive side of things in looking after a baby and talking.

Kristen
Thanks for having me.

Amy
Great multitasking.

Jess
Yeah, thanks, guys.

Sara
Thank you.

Amy
Thank you.